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Who Believes in Ghost ???
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    Posted: 30 Jul 2010 at 11:41am
Originally posted by Paw

(According to the bible, correct me if im wrong please.)

But "Evil" basically started when Lucifer(the devil) was cast out of heaven, Lucifer was one of God's closest angels before hand correct me if Im wrong...

But God let Lucifer do what he wanted and become the Devil, God dint instantly "smite" him or anything but he let him choose what he wanted to do....

I dont know if you guys are following me but this has to do with the free will argument...

If God wanted to, im pretty 100% positive he could wipe out all evil instantly, he is God, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end....(the end, which is explained in revelations the last book of the bible) and i dont think he would want to change what is written and prophesied in that book...

idk im trying to sound smart haha


Did you even watch the video? Free will and the "soul" have been refuted by neuroscience because they have never been demonstrated in the properties of the brain. Cognition is completely different from "free will."

Also, if God possesses the ability to wipe out all evil, then why call him God? He's certainly not a benevolent God if he allows such evil to thrive, he's basically an all powerful malevolent douche-bag.
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Posts: 441 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2010 at 11:33am
(According to the bible, correct me if im wrong please.)

But "Evil" basically started when Lucifer(the devil) was cast out of heaven, Lucifer was one of God's closest angels before hand correct me if Im wrong...

But God let Lucifer do what he wanted and become the Devil, God dint instantly "smite" him or anything but he let him choose what he wanted to do....

I dont know if you guys are following me but this has to do with the free will argument...

If God wanted to, im pretty 100% positive he could wipe out all evil instantly, he is God, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end....(the end, which is explained in revelations the last book of the bible) and i dont think he would want to change what is written and prophesied in that book...

idk im trying to sound smart haha
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evil does exist and its attempt to influence us is constant imo. religion doesn't explain everything unknown but neither does science!!!

i imagine that what we call sciene would be childs play to GOD. about like colloring with crayons.

there's no way religion will ever be a thing of the past! that may be the whole point of the bible in the first place? without the bible would we even be talking about religion in 2010? probably not. that fact in itself after all these years is pretty amazing to me.
i mean how has Christianity even survived this long? GOD and his bible thats how! it has been under attack nonstop from its very beggining and yet here we are still talking about.

keeping the word alive is important so you even know you have a choice. its amazing when you really think about it.
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Posts: 441 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2010 at 11:20am
Great post King eternal, all that was in my head i just didnt know how to word it 

tuna, trendy, and hanfei.....shame on you guys haha
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Originally posted by Blackfang

Originally posted by THE_KING_ETERNAL

Originally posted by HanFei

Below is the problem of evil:

If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Therefore, God doesn't exist.


That makes absolutely no sense man. The answer lies with the concept of FREE WILL and misunderstanding of it. Free will is the most loving act of all and God is all love. We know that forced love is not real love. It's like forcing someone to marry someone at the altar. Now, is that real love? Of course it isn't.

So now let's go back to the answer. In order for God to stop all evil, he would have to interfere with one's own will. What if someone wanted to commit murder by their own free will? If God stopped them, He would then be violating His own love for us and His gift of Free Will. Let's take it a step back further- which evil then should God stop: some of it or all of it? Evil is evil no matter what shape, form, or degree including an evil thought. Evil actions are born from evil thoughts. In order for evil to not exist, God would have to program our minds to never think evil and remove our freedom of thought. Essentially we would be nothing more that robots with only one choice available: to make the right choice only! But once again, that wouldn't make us humans and that would not be authentic love. If you cause someone to make a specific choice than that choice is no longer free. God loved us so much that he gave us a choice to love Him back or not, to believe Him so or not.

bravo


I'm just gonna link this as an explanation for the delusion of free will because Steven Pinker can explain it far better than I could ever hope to:


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Originally posted by THE_KING_ETERNAL

Originally posted by HanFei

Below is the problem of evil:

If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Therefore, God doesn't exist.


That makes absolutely no sense man. The answer lies with the concept of FREE WILL and misunderstanding of it. Free will is the most loving act of all and God is all love. We know that forced love is not real love. It's like forcing someone to marry someone at the altar. Now, is that real love? Of course it isn't.

So now let's go back to the answer. In order for God to stop all evil, he would have to interfere with one's own will. What if someone wanted to commit murder by their own free will? If God stopped them, He would then be violating His own love for us and His gift of Free Will. Let's take it a step back further- which evil then should God stop: some of it or all of it? Evil is evil no matter what shape, form, or degree including an evil thought. Evil actions are born from evil thoughts. In order for evil to not exist, God would have to program our minds to never think evil and remove our freedom of thought. Essentially we would be nothing more that robots with only one choice available: to make the right choice only! But once again, that wouldn't make us humans and that would not be authentic love. If you cause someone to make a specific choice than that choice is no longer free. God loved us so much that he gave us a choice to love Him back or not, to believe Him so or not.

bravo
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Posts: 2994 		Post Options Post Options   Quote TuNA FISh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2010 at 10:15am
Originally posted by HanFei

Below is the problem of evil:

If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Therefore, God doesn't exist.
   

evil doesn't exist though XD. religion is just a primitive way to explain the things we don't understand. once religion is a thing of the past people will start fighting over scientific theories such as the M theory and the string theory
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Originally posted by THE_KING_ETERNAL

Originally posted by HanFei

Below is the problem of evil:

If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Therefore, God doesn't exist.


That makes absolutely no sense man. The answer lies with the concept of FREE WILL and misunderstanding of it. Free will is the most loving act of all and God is all love. We know that forced love is not real love. It's like forcing someone to marry someone at the altar. Now, is that real love? Of course it isn't.

So now let's go back to the answer. In order for God to stop all evil, he would have to interfere with one's own will. What if someone wanted to commit murder by their own free will? If God stopped them, He would then be violating His own love for us and His gift of Free Will. Let's take it a step back further- which evil then should God stop: some of it or all of it? Evil is evil no matter what shape, form, or degree including an evil thought. Evil actions are born from evil thoughts. In order for evil to not exist, God would have to program our minds to never think evil and remove our freedom of thought. Essentially we would be nothing more that robots with only one choice available: to make the right choice only! But once again, that wouldn't make us humans and that would not be authentic love. If you cause someone to make a specific choice than that choice is no longer free. God loved us so much that he gave us a choice to love Him back or not, to believe Him so or not.

 
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Originally posted by HanFei

Below is the problem of evil:

If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Therefore, God doesn't exist.


That makes absolutely no sense man. The answer lies with the concept of FREE WILL and misunderstanding of it. Free will is the most loving act of all and God is all love. We know that forced love is not real love. It's like forcing someone to marry someone at the altar. Now, is that real love? Of course it isn't.

So now let's go back to the answer. In order for God to stop all evil, he would have to interfere with one's own will. What if someone wanted to commit murder by their own free will? If God stopped them, He would then be violating His own love for us and His gift of Free Will. Let's take it a step back further- which evil then should God stop: some of it or all of it? Evil is evil no matter what shape, form, or degree including an evil thought. Evil actions are born from evil thoughts. In order for evil to not exist, God would have to program our minds to never think evil and remove our freedom of thought. Essentially we would be nothing more that robots with only one choice available: to make the right choice only! But once again, that wouldn't make us humans and that would not be authentic love. If you cause someone to make a specific choice than that choice is no longer free. God loved us so much that he gave us a choice to love Him back or not, to believe Him so or not.
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lol FAIL!

there's no way of knowing what GOD accualy is. i myself don't take every word in the bible to be a fact persay.

imagine 100's of people taking mental notes on events for 100's of years and passing the storys down to the next generation until someone finally writes them down.

there's a human tendacy to put your own twist into a story or atleast exagerate a little. every word of the bible was written by man then translated into different languages. some words don't even translate very well. 1 example is Jesus was said to be a Carpenter but i seen where the original word acually means, someone that works with there hands, not Carpenter?

another example is the king James version. they took different parts and put together there bible, they put in the parts they saw fit and left out the rest.

im not saying anything in the bible is wrong! im just saying parts of it might not be completely accurate? BUT that doesn't mean that GOD or our religion is false.   

as for how powerful GOD is? no one knows the answer to that! some people blame GOD for every negative that happens in there life? some bible beaters think they should be amune to everything negative in life but thats not the case obviousely.

i can't tell you what to believe and i would not even try because its your choice but you shouldn't use logic to try to disprove GOD or the bible because if there is a GOD he's wiser then us to a degree that there's no scale for! that much is obvious!

i would only suggest 1 thing to everyone who reads this! if your unsure what to believe then atleast try to speak to GOD atleast once. you can do it in the privacy of your room it doesn't matter where just try then see how you feel about it.

Choosing GOD isn't a hard decision but i personaly believe its the biggest decision in life.

no need for a debate though because he gives us all a choice!
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Iv'e had couple times those hypnagogic experiences as stated here

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-hypnagogic-hallucinations.htm
and they can be really scary and they ARE very realistic.
A strong feeling of presence of something  combined to catalepsy (paralyzed from neck down as in sleep) can be freaky - but it's only in your mind so don't worry Smile
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Below is the problem of evil:

If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
Evil exists.
If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
Therefore, God doesn't exist.
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Originally posted by Deadaim

i find it very sad how muslims live their lives and it does make me question christianity as a cult aswell.. but in the end i dont see them as equals as far as how they operate.. most people that do are atheists that want to make chrisitianity look bad.

How so are they sad?
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Great.  This randomly gets bumped and becomes a religion debate again.  Personally, I'm agnostic.  I've never really felt victimized, even when I was still all out atheist.
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someone define NOT believing.  because in my 25 years, i chose to live a moral life, regardless of what i believe. i chose not to believe, but rather live by moral choices.  if something doesn't go my way, it's not because God didn't find me worthy, it's because i didn't work hard enough...
do i know if there is a God?  absolutely not.  but my instincts tell me that there is something more...


but there is one wish i have...
i just wish there will be a point in the future where both science and religion can co-exist.  i believe that once those barriers are broken, a new level of understanding and reason can be established.

i saw this on TV once, and i had to do with the 10 commandments.  i personally believe that are obsolete.  when you take into consideration the harshness and lack of moral judgments people made in the past, i think they were fashioned to create a peace and at the same time instill fear.  
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the way i see it is simple, my life will only last a short time no matter how long i live

i have nothing to lose by believing, if im wrong no big deal

if i chose not to believe and i was wrong eternity in hell would be never ending misery! with no escape! ever!

we cant even really comprehend how long that is! a normal life span is about 65 to 80 years at best. not even a blink of an eye compared to all eternity.

its an easy choice 4 me. we'll all see in the end though.
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yeah, i totally misread that part of your post haha
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Originally posted by TuNA FISh

Originally posted by Fatal1st

time for the resident existentialst to chip in. i personal believe we are all born absolutely free. in a godless world we make our own choices, we shape the world. if the world isnt how you like it, change it. if you don't like who you are, change yourself. if you don't like the rules, make new ones. every choice we make is our own. why enslave ourselves and make it someone elses? if you want to deny your absolute freedom, then follow someone elses morality i.e god. in a godless world there is no right or wrong, we live beyond good and evil. i guess some people can't take the responsibility of absolute radical freedom. if that means im going to hell for creating my own moralistic philosophy rather than buying into someone elses then so be it.i prefer to live my life by making choices as if i am a god, rather than following one.
i wouldn't say you created your own philosophy XD. that's pretty much basic Atheism :D


lol, im not saying i created existentialism. im saying that i decide what i want my personal morality will be every day when i make the choices that affect my life. my own morality is an individual to me as my fingerprints.
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Originally posted by Fatal1st

time for the resident existentialst to chip in. i personal believe we are all born absolutely free. in a godless world we make our own choices, we shape the world. if the world isnt how you like it, change it. if you don't like who you are, change yourself. if you don't like the rules, make new ones.

every choice we make is our own. why enslave ourselves and make it someone elses? if you want to deny your absolute freedom, then follow someone elses morality i.e god.

in a godless world there is no right or wrong, we live beyond good and evil. i guess some people can't take the responsibility of absolute radical freedom.

if that means im going to hell for creating my own moralistic philosophy rather than buying into someone elses then so be it.

i prefer to live my life by making choices as if i am a god, rather than following one.


i wouldn't say you created your own philosophy XD. that's pretty much basic Atheism :D

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time for the resident existentialst to chip in. i personal believe we are all born absolutely free. in a godless world we make our own choices, we shape the world. if the world isnt how you like it, change it. if you don't like who you are, change yourself. if you don't like the rules, make new ones.

every choice we make is our own. why enslave ourselves and make it someone elses? if you want to deny your absolute freedom, then follow someone elses morality i.e god.

in a godless world there is no right or wrong, we live beyond good and evil. i guess some people can't take the responsibility of absolute radical freedom.

if that means im going to hell for creating my own moralistic philosophy rather than buying into someone elses then so be it.

i prefer to live my life by making choices as if i am a god, rather than following one.
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Originally posted by XxXDEATHXxX101

Originally posted by env_1ner

first of all i know some ppl would problably laught about what im about to say,and others will have maybe had an experience like im about to tell you. so last night it was around 1 in the morning and i just  couldnt go to sleep. and all of a sudden i felt that someone grabbed both of my hands and held them together and used the other hand to get me by the neck. and this is a true story, it happend to me last night. my gf and baby were both sleeping and i was trying to move my whole body and i couldnt. i tried to scream so my gf would some how make everything go away. i couldnt i turn my head around and i saw a person with evil eyes looking at me, he had a red face, long hair and i coulnt see him straight.. i was completely paralyed. i dont know what it was, but im sure there was someone in my house. i ended up moving my hand and i touched my gf hand but she never woke up. he left after a minute i woke up my gf right after. that minute lasted more than an hour for me at the moment. that is my experience. u can belive or not, i just hope it never happens to anyone else.
so theres this thing that happens to alot of people where they are asleep and there brain is waking up but other parts of the brain are still not active. this gives the vision of things in your dream in reality and also the inability to move as well.  I HAVE HAD THIS HAPPEN B4, but i knew what it was when it was over with.  alot of people think when this happens its ghosts or alien abuctions.  its true an you can look it up.  the brain goes through steps when falling asleep and waking but its rare when it happens that it skips steps or awakes outta order but it does happen. 

okay, i have had this happen to me a few times and i think it's ridiculous that they try to explain alien abduction with sleep paralysis... and ev1_ner, you had sleep paralysis, bro. it's scary when it's never happened to you before so i understand why you would think someone held you down
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Originally posted by Hey_Look_its_Trendy

Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

i think some examples of wrong doing in the name of god is rediculous...were humans not devine beings...just because some things are done by people calling themselves Christians doesn't mean the religion itself is bad or fake.

people will always fail because its a standard that humans can't achieve...hence the need for forgiveness


What besides religion could motivate someone to hijack a plane and drive it into a building? Everyone can pick out their favorite instance of religious driven hatred that honestly couldn't be attributed to anything else besides their fanatical ideals. There are passages in the bible, koran, and torah that all permit religious purification and violence. Face it, religion is holding us back as a species.
 

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Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

i think some examples of wrong doing in the name of god is rediculous...were humans not devine beings...just because some things are done by people calling themselves Christians doesn't mean the religion itself is bad or fake.

people will always fail because its a standard that humans can't achieve...hence the need for forgiveness


What besides religion could motivate someone to hijack a plane and drive it into a building? Everyone can pick out their favorite instance of religious driven hatred that honestly couldn't be attributed to anything else besides their fanatical ideals. There are passages in the bible, koran, and torah that all permit religious purification and violence. Face it, religion is holding us back as a species.
 
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Joined: 02 Jul 2009
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Posts: 2994 		Post Options Post Options   Quote TuNA FISh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by uc SYZYGY uc

i know what you mean Deadaim..Christians do get a bad rap by atheists...they get annoyed instantly if anyony even mentions religion.

ive never had anyone pester me about religion either and ive lived in the bible belt my whole life.

i do feel bad for the non believers though hell aint no joke

lol where do you live? because i live in the true bible belt and this **** sucks! i was raised Catholic and you have no idea what kind of **** baptists would say to me haha. someone seriously told me in highschool that i was going to hell because i was catholic... kids teasing and telling me that catholics are evil blahhh. i got into a fight one time when i was 13 because a kid kept telling me i worship mary.

i don't believe in God and it is very annoying to have people come up to you and try to convert you. it's like when you tell them no they make it a point to keep trying. one of the first questions i was asked at my new job two weeks ago was if i was a christian and when i said no he acted like i was on my death bed. i guess people have different perspectives on religion because of location.

edit: my post just seemed so negative.. it's not like i get harassed by christians lol but it does happen sometimes
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